question about paragon skills and minions - Guild Wars Forums

amber dawn · Dec 30, 2010, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I have read wiki on about allies/minion/spirits to try and find my answer.
With all the misinformation I have seen come and go on there I am uncertain about the answer to this question.
Do the skills Anthems of weariness/disruption and envy apply to minions since they are considered allies? As well as the skill go for the eyes?

I tested it with spirits against the dummies and envy did increase the damage from the rit skill pain, but I didn't notice it increasing the damage from the SoS elite. The spirits also did put weakness on the dummies with anthem of weariness.

When I tested it with a couple of minions I did not notice the weakness being applied. Also when I would use the anthem of envy I did not notice an increase in damage from a minion as I did with the spirit.

Would someone be so kind to explain if they do work for minions or if they don't why.

I have came here a few times over the years and there are always those that have been exceedingly helpful with the explanations.

Thank you
Amber

Gennadios · Dec 30, 2010, 04:24 AM // 04:24

GftE works on minions.

Anthem of Weariness/Disruption work on minions, but unfortunately, both these skills require that the ally use an attack skill, since minions don't use attack skills and their dps comes purely from auto-attack, both of those are wasted.

Spirits attack with skills in fact, if you track some of them you'll see them taking an action similar in name to the name of the spirit itself, that's why the chants synergise with them.

Star_Jewel · Dec 30, 2010, 04:26 AM // 04:26

I think the key to understanding the difference is in the descriptions of the Paragon skills. The Anthems you mention, Weariness, Envy, etc., trigger on the allies' attack skill -- not just their attack. I found it interesting that you said your Pain spirit triggered the effect, until I looked that spirit up on Wiki: "This skill creates a Spirit of Pain that uses the Pain attack skill."

According to Wiki, Signet of Spirits used to use the Pain Attack skill, but don't anymore.

As far as I know, minions just swing their little arms and attack things -- they don't use skills.

So that's why you're seeing a difference. As far as "Go for the Eyes!": "the next time each ally within earshot makes an attack, that attack has an additional 30...86...100% chance to critical" -- specifically says "attack," not "attack skill" -- this indicates it would apply to minions.

ETA: Err, y'know, what Gennadios said.

amber dawn · Dec 30, 2010, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Thanks to both of you, I suspected it had to do with the attack vs attack skill. I was uncertain because I thought when I was reading about spirits I seen the comment " their attacks deal xx" so I thought that minions and spirits both just attacked.
Thank you for pointing out the spirits use attack skills.

Please close this thread, as always the experts answered quickly.

gremlin · Dec 30, 2010, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Thanks you have given me food for thought about just what does and doesn't affect minions and spirits.

Going to see if the Ranger nature rituals have a use in this way too.

Am thinking Greater conflagration Winter Edge of extinction and Fertile season might be used to good effect

Pity they boost enemies too but you cannot have everything.

Sethellington · Dec 30, 2010, 10:28 AM // 10:28

On a some what related note, Black Bear pets use Brutal Mauling, which is an attack skills and are as such the only pets to triggers 'Song' and 'Anthem' type skills.

AndrewSX · Dec 30, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Me and a guildie was talking about Para shout + minions and spirits just yesterday and we found that:
You need that the para skill affects allies, cause summoned creatures aren't in party window. Also shout that affects next attack skill(as stated above) doesn't work on minions. So GftE is ok for a MM, even Find their Weakness i guess. All other shouts/anthem could be used for spirits.

For side note: minions can be targeted also by weapon spell(Great dwarf weapon on multiple minions could be good...) and exploit wards like EbsoH.

Rites · Dec 30, 2010, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sethellington

On a some what related note, Black Bear pets use Brutal Mauling, which is an attack skills and are as such the only pets to triggers 'Song' and 'Anthem' type skills.

true,but as pointed out on another thread, it is unwise to rely on this because you never know when brutal mauling will be used

Dec 30, 2010, 04:09 AM // 04:09	#1
amber dawn Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2008 Guild: fos Profession: A/	question about paragon skills and minions I have read wiki on about allies/minion/spirits to try and find my answer. With all the misinformation I have seen come and go on there I am uncertain about the answer to this question. Do the skills Anthems of weariness/disruption and envy apply to minions since they are considered allies? As well as the skill go for the eyes? I tested it with spirits against the dummies and envy did increase the damage from the rit skill pain, but I didn't notice it increasing the damage from the SoS elite. The spirits also did put weakness on the dummies with anthem of weariness. When I tested it with a couple of minions I did not notice the weakness being applied. Also when I would use the anthem of envy I did not notice an increase in damage from a minion as I did with the spirit. Would someone be so kind to explain if they do work for minions or if they don't why. I have came here a few times over the years and there are always those that have been exceedingly helpful with the explanations. Thank you Amber

Dec 30, 2010, 04:26 AM // 04:26	#3
Star_Jewel Jungle Guide Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Denizen of Tyria since Feb. 2009	I think the key to understanding the difference is in the descriptions of the Paragon skills. The Anthems you mention, Weariness, Envy, etc., trigger on the allies' attack skill -- not just their attack. I found it interesting that you said your Pain spirit triggered the effect, until I looked that spirit up on Wiki: "This skill creates a Spirit of Pain that uses the Pain attack skill." According to Wiki, Signet of Spirits used to use the Pain Attack skill, but don't anymore. As far as I know, minions just swing their little arms and attack things -- they don't use skills. So that's why you're seeing a difference. As far as "Go for the Eyes!": "the next time each ally within earshot makes an attack, that attack has an additional 30...86...100% chance to critical" -- specifically says "attack," not "attack skill" -- this indicates it would apply to minions. ETA: Err, y'know, what Gennadios said. Last edited by Star_Jewel; Dec 30, 2010 at 04:28 AM // 04:28.. Reason: Beat to the punch!

Dec 30, 2010, 04:24 AM // 04:24	#2
Gennadios Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2009 Profession: N/A	GftE works on minions. Anthem of Weariness/Disruption work on minions, but unfortunately, both these skills require that the ally use an attack skill, since minions don't use attack skills and their dps comes purely from auto-attack, both of those are wasted. Spirits attack with skills in fact, if you track some of them you'll see them taking an action similar in name to the name of the spirit itself, that's why the chants synergise with them.

Dec 30, 2010, 04:42 AM // 04:42	#4
amber dawn Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2008 Guild: fos Profession: A/	Thanks to both of you, I suspected it had to do with the attack vs attack skill. I was uncertain because I thought when I was reading about spirits I seen the comment " their attacks deal xx" so I thought that minions and spirits both just attacked. Thank you for pointing out the spirits use attack skills. Please close this thread, as always the experts answered quickly.

Dec 30, 2010, 08:46 AM // 08:46	#5
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	Thanks you have given me food for thought about just what does and doesn't affect minions and spirits. Going to see if the Ranger nature rituals have a use in this way too. Am thinking Greater conflagration Winter Edge of extinction and Fertile season might be used to good effect Pity they boost enemies too but you cannot have everything.

Dec 30, 2010, 10:28 AM // 10:28	#6
Sethellington Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: nn Profession: N/	On a some what related note, Black Bear pets use Brutal Mauling, which is an attack skills and are as such the only pets to triggers 'Song' and 'Anthem' type skills.

Dec 30, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18	#7
AndrewSX Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2010 Location: Italy, Turin Guild: Lake Profession: E/	Me and a guildie was talking about Para shout + minions and spirits just yesterday and we found that: You need that the para skill affects allies, cause summoned creatures aren't in party window. Also shout that affects next attack skill(as stated above) doesn't work on minions. So GftE is ok for a MM, even Find their Weakness i guess. All other shouts/anthem could be used for spirits. For side note: minions can be targeted also by weapon spell(Great dwarf weapon on multiple minions could be good...) and exploit wards like EbsoH.